What a sad poem! I never learned much about the details of WWI, but I have liked reading Charles Todd's novels, the Anne Perry series, and Regeneration and its sequels.

Vee, does it mean with this play that there's a resurgence of interest in and respect for Kipling? His poetry has been out of fashion for a long time...I suppose it was considered too straightforwardly evocative and sentimental for the moderns and postmoderns. I recall the derision toward "Danny Deever" and "Gunga Din" when I was in college -- both of which I really like and know by heart. His prose fared better, it seems, but it, too, was considered old-fashioned.

I read a biography of Carrie Kipling, who apparently was one of the most disliked women of her era. She seems to have had a prickly personality that might have been caused by depression, but whatever the cause she didn't receive a lot of understanding.

It's odd for me to think that if WWI had not happened, I and my immediate family would never have existed. I guess that's one to consider as an alternate history, as discussed in another thread.

I hope it reaches the States and that we don't have to wait for it too long, as is often the case. I really feel dated in my education, now: remembering one of the "required reading" novels in High School was Kipling's "The Light that Failed" about a man going blind. Also, I must be quite a throw-back in my tastes, in that I still admire Kipling's poem "If....."

I have read many sad poems in my day, but this one breaks my heart into little pieces.

Saw this on TV last night and thought young Daniel Radcliffe acquitted himself very well (this is from someone who has never seen the HP films or even read the books).
The best lines went to RK, played by David Haig, who also write the original stage play. Kim (Desperate Housewives) Cattrall plays Caroline K as a loving but tough and angry woman. J sister has been given the part of the 'common man' in that she is allowed to express all the disgust felt against the loss of so many young young men going to their deaths as cannon fodder.
I'm sure it will reach the outposts of Empire . . . and the US.

Mary, we too 'did' some Kipling when in Junior school (7-11) Our teacher came from that generation and she read The Jungle Book, Just-so-Stories etc to us. I remember Puck of Pook's Hill was shown on children's TV.
I think it was during the '60's that all things Imperial/establishment became deeply unfashionable. So Owen's horror of war, Graves cynicism, Sassoon's madness(?) took pride of place. The same as the anti-Vietnam movt. in the US.
It is only in the last few years that a 'Two Minute Silence' has been re-established at 11 o'clock on 11 Nov. Guns are sounded and many people take the time to stop and ponder, not to the extent of the aftermath of the Gt War when crowds fell silent and men removed their hats . . .but better than nothing.

Frieda I received a GW email from you this am. If you would give me your new email address I could contact you at home.

A sadder and just as appropriate Kipling poem is from his EPITAPHS OF WAR: the one with the famous line,
'If any question why we died,
Tell them, because our fathers lied.'

I can't wait to see this on American TV. There is also a book translated from the Belgian, KIPLING'S CHOICE by Geert Spillebeen, which covers the same material.

Brenda

Does anyone know when this will be on US TV? Someone on IMDB says April 20 but I don't know how accurate that is.

I must say that if the movie is one tenth as sad as the poem..I'm not sure I can watch it.

How ironic it is that Kipling and his literary generation lost their reputations because of the horrors of WW1. Europe and the US received a profound shock. Realism, modernism, darkness have prevailed in "serious" literature ever since.

Ginny-

I don't understand what you mean, "lost their reputations...".

Many well-regarded authors of the 19c and pre-WW1 20c had their literary reputations plummet after the war. The mood, the spirit of the times changed dramatically. Their world view was thoroughly rejected. What had been respected and honored was now seen as impossibly optimistic, naive, unrealistic. Styles in art and architecture--and literature--were very different after the war. Writers like Rudyard Kipling were out, at least among those who considered themselves the "cultural elite".

Mmm, I would suggest rather that there are literary fashions which are hard to buck, and that Kipling has been on the downside of that fashion for the past 75 years or so. It is about time for the worm to turn.

It is true however that Kipling was a vehement proponent for going into the Great War, and spent a lot of energy after war was declared, making speeches and urging British boys to sign up before all the fun was over. His son John was as anxious as any to join up, but even if he had not been, he had no choice -- the currents of the time (getting women to pin white feathers onto able-bodied men that they met in the street who were not in uniform, for instance) plus his dad's rep meant that he -had- to join up.

And it is sadly true that he was barely 18, and so severely handicapped by bad eyesight that sending him into the trenches was a crime; most of the Services sensibly rejected him as physically unfit and he only got in because Kipling pulled strings.

And finally, Kipling knew all this as well as anybody. His grief and guilt must have been terrible. "Because our fathers lied," he wrote. That's why John died.

Brenda

That is so sad, I didn't know that part (about where the quote came from)

BTW, Kipling and Twain were contemporaries and great friends. I wonder if that poem came before or after Twain's famous War Prayer?

The elite may have felt that he was on the out, but Kim, Jungle Book and Just So stories were among my favoites growing up, that nothing is going to get in the way of saying he was a wonderful writer (even if he was woefully lacking in foresight). I recently reread Kim, and it made me realize how wonderful a writer he was.

Here is a link that might be useful: war prayer

wow, that is sad, what a terrible way to learn a lesson....

Cindy, I'd never read that Twain piece before, thank you for posting it.

I think Kipling only met Twain when, as a journalist on his way back from India to England (the long way round) he went to interview MT then living in some rural backwater of up state NY. This was well before RK wrote his many books and about 30 years before his My Boy Jack came out.
Below is a copy of his meeting and interview with Twain . . . in case our US readers cannot tell, it is written in a 'humorous' Victorian style. ;-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Kipling interviews 'Mark Twain'

A gentle reminder, the US readers are neither children nor idiots. ;-)

Did anyone see this on PBS this weekend? It was very well done, and so, so sad. I'm not sure I'm glad I watched it....

But Daniel Radcliffe was excellent--managed to forget he was Harry Potter for most of the film. "Rudyard Kipling" was also good but, as actors, the wife and daughter did not seem to express the inconsolable grief that the real people would certainly have felt. I don't mean hysterics; there are other--too many other--ways of grieving.

I meant to watch it, but then forgot about it. I did read all about the production and it sounded excellent. Rudyard Kipling has always been such an enigma to me....

I watched the PBS version on Sunday and thought it was wonderful. They did a good job of showing just how awful it was in the trenches and how brave they must have been to climb over the top of the trenches into almost-certain death. Did anyone watch the after-the-scenes clips when the actors talk about their roles? It was fascinating.

And then next week is Cranford. Yippee.

PBS being the way it is, I'm sure they will rerun it where you are. If you go to the website for your local PBS station, they usually have the listings by the name of the show.

I missed the showing on Sunday, but I will catch it next time. Thanks for the article, veer, it is very amusing! Kipling and his family lived in Vermont for a time, and he did a great deal of writing there. His former home is now an inn; I would love to stay there someday.